Why Cloud is the Future for Businesses with Amish Sanghrajka

0:00Haree Still trusting outdated servers to run your business. You could be throwing money away and risking it all. In this episode, we'll uncover why staying off the cloud might be your biggest mistake yet. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Cyber CEO podcast. I'm your host, Harry. And today we're going to explore one of the most important tech decisions businesses are making right now. Moving to the cloud. You might have heard a lot of buzz around this topic. But today we're breaking it down into what it really means for your business from saving money to increasing flexibility. We're covering all the benefits that come with embracing cloud technology.

0:49Haree I'm joined today by my brilliant co host Amish, COO of IceConnect. So Amish, let's kick things off. Why do you think so many businesses are making the switch to cloud right now?

0:59Amish Yeah, so for me, it's mostly for the flexibility, especially with such a massive push towards remote work, hybrid work, and also expanding to global workforces, like we discussed in the previous episode, and pushing the business onto the cloud opens up so many avenues there. The other side of this for me is also the cost effectiveness, especially for a smaller company who maybe doesn't have as much capital to spend on massive amounts of infrastructure. You have access with the cloud with full scalable solutions. You can use as much computing power as you need and just pay for that as you're using it and then scale it back as you need.

1:46Haree One of the biggest issues we've got with cloud is granted. It is a heavy monthly cost depending on how big you are and the infrastructure you've got. But you are saving a massive capital cost, right? So with, let's say, a team of 50 people, you're looking at spending near enough 50 grand plus. For new infrastructure, servers, hardware, and software, which comes with it, right?

2:10Amish the very least. Yeah. Once you take licensing.

2:12Haree Yeah, yeah, you can add another 10, 20 grand these days for licensing with the likes of big providers like VMware being eaten up by Broadcom and people having to look for alternative solutions. Our go to right now is Hyper V where it was previously VMware, but getting back to the figures it's expensive to pay it out once versus, The monthly cost.

2:37Amish and I think with good management and just staying on top of what you're using and what you're spending You can keep that monthly fee at a point where it is still cheaper than having to buy the infrastructure yourself Maintain it and then also upgrade it.

2:54Haree that was the point I was coming to. You've got the infrastructure. Let's just say you spent the 50 K on infrastructure. Now the monthly equivalent to something like that, let's just arguably say it's 1500 pounds a month. Once you've included people's servers, emails, facilities, and stuff. If we go to 1500 pounds a month, say 15 grand, 20 grand a year, let's just call it, you could arguably say within three years, you've hit the same figure as it would have cost you to. Purchase the equipment outright. but what people don't factor in is the time to recovery, the ability to not have to pay capital expense, the fact that the support is a lot less, the equipment downtime is a lot less.

3:47Haree There's so many factors involved when it comes to paying the monthly fee versus.

3:52Amish And one thing that I think a lot of people overlook is the fact that with, especially with the bigger cloud providers, they will be upgrading their infrastructure fairly regularly. As new technologies come out, as faster hard hard drives, SSDs, as all of these things come out, they will upgrade their infrastructure and you don't have to worry about upgrading your physical infrastructure. You just tag onto that.

4:17Haree The other thing you've mentioned there is The updates and then the security side of things right? That's just as important a side by side Comparison on costs is most probably the biggest issue which most people have they're like I'd rather just pay the capital expense and forget about the Monthly's than having to see The monthly numbers coming out of my bank balance, but there's so many more advantages to that, right? You've got the total lifespan of servers, which you buy these days is about five to six years. If I was to be realistic,

4:51Amish Yeah, I About right.

4:52Haree So you're mostly paying two years more by going to cloud,

4:58Amish Yeah.

4:59Haree simply by going to cloud. You've got the flexibility, the scalability in and amongst all of it, the security because someone else is managing the infrastructure. You've got the disaster recovery built into there, which we can touch on a little bit. And the automatic updates, which come with it. And that's what you mentioned. So the cloud is a no brainer. If you think

5:22Amish definitely. Especially with the scalability and the flexibility for me, it's a no brainer that everyone has to start putting at least some of their services into the cloud. Stuff like email and being able to access that from wherever you are without having to worry about, is your office internet still up and running?

5:44Haree Yeah. You're not depending on one building and that flexibility comes in exactly there. Let's say a company wants to scale up, move offices or even downsize. Let's be real. That allows you to chop and change that very quickly. You want to start removing staff members. It's a click of a button and you've removed members and you don't have to carry on paying for those. You want to start adding. Click of a button and you started adding people. You've scaled up contracted in size. If you want very quickly with those costs savings there. So look I, for one, I'm a massive advocate of everything. Cloud where possible management is a lot easier as well. So we do encourage it. The biggest concerns people have I know I've got a array of concerns, but if I was to pick out the top ones, most people say to me is is it really secure?

6:34Haree Someone else is managing our data. It's sitting on someone else's servers and how can I be sure that no one else has access to it? So that's the first one. Is it so expensive? And why am I having to pay all of this amount of money per month for it now? I used to have it for free sitting in my office. And I think saying it was cheap and for free is again fool's gold, so to speak to some degree. And the other one is a lot of businesses think that not, they're not cloud worthy. Their business is too small, right? They don't think

7:06Amish I've heard that, quite a lot.

7:07Haree yeah, they don't think it applies to them. So security, we know it's secure.

7:13Amish So going on that point, these, especially the big providers, again, Are tied in by so many regulations that they have to prove to lots of different People that they have security in place, which let's be honest, most companies, smaller companies wouldn't be able to keep up with,

7:34Haree Not with

7:35Amish because trying implement, yeah, not with trying to implement something like that with a limited budget is pretty much impossible. Whereas these big providers have to do it because it's regulated. So the security they provide is going to be much higher than what you can do yourself normally.

7:52Haree Yeah. And when you think about the security side as well, you think about the businesses which we work with. And like you said, the budget isn't there to spend that level on security. It's someone else's problem. And with things like ransomware coming about, viruses and stuff, what the cloud affords you is way better. Yeah. Just have a look at something like snapshots on. Microsoft SharePoint, for example, you can go back in time on any set date or time and say someone's hacked into our systems and locked all of our files. Let's go back to yesterday at 12 o'clock and you've got everything back, right?

8:31Amish Everything's back.

8:31Haree And that again is just the few clicks of a button. The other thing is the increased when we say a bit of security, the storage space. So if you want to take these multiple snapshots, you want to have multiple copies of your data, you're not having to buy more and more storage in your internal infrastructure. It's all sitting in the cloud, right?

8:52Amish Yeah,

8:53Haree So there is that. We did speak about the expensive part. I

8:57Amish um, one thing I wanted to touch on there is we were talking about like you, you have the initial outlay on all the hardware if you want to keep everything in house, but you then also have the ongoing costs of having to have a high speed Like a very high speed internet connection, like leased line. If you want to have your own internal infrastructure, you have to have quite a hefty amount of power. You have to have UPS, battery backups, and all of these things do add on monthly costs there because just having a triple phase power coming in to power three, four servers and storage devices, it's not going to be cheap.

9:38Haree No. And I think these are the other hidden costs, which people don't understand. People don't realize.

9:44Amish Yeah.

9:45Haree Power is massive when you think about the cost of power these days and just

9:50Amish Yeah, exactly.

9:51Haree a mini, let's be honest, mini data center for some of our customers into the building. Even those UPSs, you think about them, they're going to cost you, what, three, four thousand pounds a UPS. Every three years you have to replace the batteries and stuff. Got hard drives going wrong and, most of these SOZs, Lord, you've only got three years warranty on it, and that's when it all starts to go wrong. When you start looking at all of that, you added up the TCO over three to five years. I appreciate, it will be cheaper. By you hosting it in house, but the amount of headache you've given yourself and the amount of work involved to maintain that infrastructure. Is tenfold and

10:26Amish the stress, the cost of the stress on it is worth that little bit extra to just go cloud.

10:32Haree I agree. I agree. And the counter argument to that and some would argue is that stress is ours as the provider service provider,

10:42Amish Yes,

10:42Haree not the customer. And I appreciate that, but you've got to understand that because the stress comes onto us with things like this, it adds cost onto the customer as well, ultimately. Again, it's not really expensive when you look at the bigger picture. If you just base it on numbers. Yes, I can understand. But when you look at the bigger picture, it's not really that expensive. And give me an idea, small businesses, let's say a two man band, a three man band, it's quite easy for them to jump on to

11:10Amish it? is. I would argue that it is easier for a small business to make that jump to cloud. Even if they are an established small business, I would argue that it's easier because there's less to do to get that move sorted out. There's less people involved and ultimately cost wise, it's not going to be very expensive. So the argument that I'm, my business is too small for Cloud. For me, it doesn't really fly. Because I think it's, the benefits far outweigh any potential costs.

11:50Haree I think it's more of a, not so much an argument, but more of a uninformed kind of. Perspective. People aren't aware. You look at simple things like Dropbox, that's cloud. You look at Google photos, that's cloud. You look at Apple iCloud, that's cloud. So all of these services are already using cloud. You're just not very well aware that they are all sitting on the cloud and you've got things like Microsoft 365, which is what we use in house and what we recommend. That's purely cloud. That takes care of your emails.

12:24Amish I mean, there's people, there's people who signed up for Hotmail accounts back in the day or Gmail accounts, and they're already technically on the cloud. They just don't refer to it as such.

12:34Haree we used to call it the internet, and now they call it the cloud. It's just a brand name for things sitting on the internet on someone else's servers.

12:42Amish a great definition I heard from somewhere was that the cloud is just someone's computer somewhere on the internet.

12:49Haree Yeah, or somewhere in a data center owned by Amazon or Microsoft Azure, for example. So yeah, it's just someone else's machine as opposed to yours, which means someone else has got the headache of looking after it, right?

13:02Amish Yeah,

13:03Haree And we talked about the costs. We talked about. The flexibility it can bring. But I think the other thing we mentioned a lot in our previous episode regarding remote working was the collaboration, the efficiencies, which we need to bring into remote teams. And that is supported by the cloud, right? We've got Microsoft office. Being able to link documents through SharePoint. I

13:31Amish Not wanting to obviously market to Microsoft office too much for them, but just one thing that I've had experience with very recently with a customer who we've moved over to SharePoint and they were previously using a local file server and they had. An Excel spreadsheet, which was their Bible. They use that every day between multiple people. And what they'd have is people either phoning or shouting across the office. Who's got file open? Can you close it? I need to make changes.

13:59Haree we've all been there at some

14:00Amish Yeah. And I showed them that now that they're on SharePoint, they can have four people, five people in that spreadsheet simultaneously and see exactly what the other person is clicking on and work on it at the same time without having to worry about any of that. And the excitement. It's actually quite funny to see from this side so far into this process. But that's one of the big benefits in collaboration.

14:27Haree very powerful that, and I think take it outside of Microsoft, for example but keeping it to Microsoft three, six, five, the integration with just third party products, you've got things like Trello, you've got Calendly, just very simple things, HubSpot. All of these integrate into Microsoft 365, which in itself is a cloud product.

14:50Amish Yeah.

14:51Haree It makes sense to make sure that your products are all sitting on the cloud so they can all talk to each other. And those integrations provide automation, which basically streamlines workflows. Automates so many tasks. For example, you don't have to pull information from your website and add it to your spreadsheet manually. You can have automations do that in the cloud. You don't have to have an inquiry, start putting it through a funnel and populating things in other places and sending out streamline of emails and stuff. That's all automation, which can be done. In the cloud, right? Which gives it a massive productivity boost to any organization. And it's the collaboration again. I know we mentioned previously in a, another episode about slack, about teams. Again, these are only possible if you have cloud version of their licenses.

15:40Amish exactly. Yeah.

15:42Haree I think a massive tool. They're really good to have. And our recommendation is always, especially the type of businesses, which let's say under a hundred users. You could always try and implement the cloud yourself.

15:57Amish Yes.

15:59Haree The problem with that is you're not going to get the implementation spot on, but more importantly, you're not going to get the security right. And that means that you are leaving yourself wide open to attacks at some point down the line, which is why we always say partner with an IT professional, partner with an IT company, which knows what they're talking about. Let them do the implementation for you. If you want to take over management, once it's done, then that's a conversation you can have, but it's very important you get it right on implementation. The security set up on this stuff is of paramount importance. If you've got servers in the cloud, they need to have the correct firewall policies. Um, they need to have the correct backup. Policies, retention policies, things like this.

16:47Haree They're so important that if you don't do that, you've almost negated the benefits of going into the cloud, right?

16:54Amish Yeah. So you definitely want to go with someone who you can trust to implement it for you and who knows what they're doing. One of the misconceptions I've heard so many times is that, oh, my data is on the cloud. So it is, it must be backed up where a lot of providers don't have access. A backup as such. It is your data's there. It's got redundancy in terms of if there is hardware failures, but if something happens to the data itself, it's not backed up. And if you don't know about that, you don't implement a backup solution for that, then there's a risk that you lose that. And these sort of things, if you don't understand these things, it can lead to a loss of your business tech potentially.

17:41Haree Absolutely. And we spoke about that earlier. Things like ransomware, virus attacks, the whole idea of going cloud is to help you mitigate those risks. But only through correct implementation. So when we look at cloud as well, we are also looking at cloud providers. You've got Microsoft 365, which is your email solution, your office apps suite and your file storage solution competitor to that is Google workspaces.

18:15Amish Yep.

18:16Haree I personally prefer Microsoft 365. I think it does a bit of a better job. It's improving day on day. The features coming out of it are phenomenally great and most people already know it having worked in a lot of

18:31Amish the it's a Microsoft product. Microsoft's been around as long as most people now. I think it's that familiarity, um, and they do provide a Stable service,

18:44Haree what from your experience technically do you think gives Microsoft the edge over Google workspaces in this scenario?

18:54Amish mostly I think is integration within windows because most people are using that still. And for me, it works so seamlessly together that just makes sense. And there are so many integrations, like you mentioned, with third parties that are designed around these Microsoft products, that it. It's just, I think, the biggest one out there.

19:19Haree Yeah, I think so. And this wouldn't be an appropriate podcast if we didn't mention the impact on the environment with all of these data centers being built and servers. And I think it's fair to say it's more efficient to have servers running in data farms than it is for every organization to have servers running internally providing their own services, right? Thank you.

19:45Amish Yeah, definitely. What you'll find with a lot of these data farms is they will have massive resources within single individual servers, which means that they're compressing down the amount of hardware that's required, and therefore reducing the amount of power required with that. Because of obviously the way things are going, they are all now pushing for renewable energy in their data centers.

20:14Haree Yes. Yes. They're all trying to get to that zero carbon

20:17Amish Yeah.

20:18Haree all of the DCs. And by them being able to do it, they've got the money to do it. Unlike us unlike us small folk, I should say. They've got the billions and billions to be able to invest in those renewable energies. I don't know if you remember, there was a recent article on the news. Microsoft has a sub C. data center where they've just dumped it into the ocean. And that provides the cooling for all of the servers and the equipment inside. And that means they don't have to run all of these air conditioning units, but they still get the full functionality out of it. Not a hope in hell for any of us putting together a project like that on the kind of budgets we want to be throwing at it.

21:00Amish we want to put it in a fish tank.

21:03Haree obviously not. But it gives you an idea, right? They have the money to throw at this and piss about with it. Let them do it. And while we can utilize their resources, so to speak.

21:13Amish exactly.

21:16Haree If you are a small business, and you are thinking about going into the cloud, What kind of steps, what kind of actions do we need to take to A, figure out can we go into the cloud and B, if we are going to the cloud, what's the best way to do it and give me a, maybe a miniature checklist of what we need to ensure we get from the cloud and how we make sure it's set up and the right fit.

21:42Amish So I think the first thing that any business would need to do before even considering going to the cloud is look at what services you currently use. Look at all of the IT infrastructure you have and try and find out what services out of that, what can you move to the cloud? There might be legacy applications which still require your servers to be on premise. And for those things, maybe you can downscale the size of the servers by moving other services over things like the smaller things like email, I say smaller in terms of the ability to move them. Something like email, you can move quite easily, but something like a specific. application server that's been custom developed may be a bit more difficult.

22:31Amish So just look at these services and prioritize which ones can be moved quickly to reduce the load on your existing infrastructure, and then you can slowly start working on the other stuff.

22:44Haree I think it's fair to say, even if they've got custom built applications, most people are building applications for cloud delivery, cloud hosting, right? And if they're not, then. You might need to ask some serious questions to your provider about why are you not moving in that direction? And maybe look at alternative products on the market. It might be better to make the switch out now. With a company, which is native to the cloud and knows what they're doing, then to try and find one, which is trying to piecemeal things together and throw you onto the cloud that way. So that's very important. And I know you've mentioned doing an assessment of what they're currently using. I think this is an important part to mention again, work with the right provider, work with the right it company, make sure they know what they're talking about.

23:32Haree I don't think any company out there, which is. Of a significant size could go it solo without having expert it help on hand to move them onto cloud and

23:45Amish you want to get it right from the start because you mess it up at the beginning, you either have a potential security hole or you end up paying for services which you maybe don't need or you're overpaying and it just, it'll end up costing you and trying to claw that back later can provide, can prove more difficult. So planning it. Right from the start. And like you said, working with a partner who knows what they're doing with the cloud already will help you to get there quicker, more efficiently and cheaper.

24:25Haree we've seen that a lot, haven't we people who come to us and they've already got a cloud set up, but it's just set up completely wrong. wrong licenses applied and wrong types of servers put into place underpowered just to save on cost and stuff and then on one hand they're arguing that or they're complaining that something is going incredibly slow and on the other hand you're like You've totally under resourced some of the servers you've got online, and someone should have warned you about this before.

24:54Amish And then the flip side is some of them have come with under resourced servers on one side Licenses, which haven't been removed for people who haven't been at the company for two, three years.

25:03Haree Yeah. Yeah. Cost savings there, just alone in a handful of people being off boarded properly. But that comes down to onboarding and off boarding procedures being done right, either internally or with your External IT partner and again, the providers we've talked about online. We mentioned Google workspaces. We mentioned Microsoft 365. They're amazing for your day to day productivity apps. Your emails, your file storage, your Microsoft words and Excels, but when it actually comes to putting servers on the cloud, and this doesn't apply to everybody. But it would apply to a reasonable number of our customers, which we have worked with in the past, a reasonable number of our listeners when they're looking to put servers into the cloud, we've really got one of three options.

25:52Haree And if I did it in order of market share, right at the top, you've got AWS, Amazon web services, by far the biggest provider of cloud services in the world. Very far down second, you've got Microsoft Azure

26:08Amish yeah,

26:09Haree and then you've got Google, it's called Google cloud, isn't

26:14Amish think just Google cloud. Yeah,

26:15Haree Google Cloud. Then you've got Google Cloud. We primarily ourselves use AWS although we do have a few services running on Microsoft Azure. I don't think we've really got anything on Google Cloud, have we? And

26:29Amish not at the moment. And I think we've, we found that comfort spot with AWS and force, especially for Linux infrastructure and things like that. And then for any Microsoft infrastructure, it just makes sense to stick it on as you, because just works it. That's what it's designed for.

26:49Haree there are several other cloud providers. I'm not saying these are the only ones you have, but these are probably the largest market share providers. If you're looking at specific types of services let me give you an example, we have file storage, archive file storage online. Any of those providers are going to be stupendously expensive. But then you've got companies such as Wasabi, who are stupendously cheap at providing you with online file storage. If you're trying to hit a very specific topic a very specific type of online service in the cloud there may be cheaper providers than any of the top three. There was Also web hosting, you could do your own dedicated servers on so many different providers nowadays in the cloud, and it's quite easy to do.

27:37Haree And again, I don't think I would choose. Any one of these companies for specific types of web hosting, primarily because it's a lot more complex to set up. There's a lot more to it than just buying a server in the cloud. And some of these specified specialist companies for web hosting, do it a lot better, right?

27:56Amish Yeah. And they, like certain companies, for example, with the web hosting, they will set up and manage the server as the web hosting server, as opposed to just having a bare bones server that you then have to install the correct software on, make sure you're updating the correct versions of everything, PHP, SQL, et cetera. And having that. There is, it's a great benefit because it reduces how much you have to worry about.

28:23Haree Yeah. And it's fully managed for you. So you don't have to actually worry about the server management side again. And that again comes with its own separate fee for web hosting, which I strongly recommend you leave in the hands of experts. So we've got multiple providers. The other thing is the learning curve, I think from moving to the cloud is a lot easier these days, isn't it? Everything should be seamless. It should be trans transferring across quite simply. I

28:53Amish I would still say so architecting a good infrastructure on the cloud is still complex, making sure you're getting it right. You're not overpaying, you're scaling up and down as and when you need to. These things this is where you want to hire an expert, just to start with, especially as a small business to get yourself up and running on the cloud, it doesn't take like years of learning where setting up your own infrastructure internally used.

29:27Haree get that and getting your team trained on it. Like you said was easy. Getting your own self trained on it is not too difficult to learn. So once you've got the cloud infrastructure deployed, I think the big one here is making sure the security is top notch, making sure you've got disaster recovery plans in place, backup plans in place. Obviously the migration itself will involve some downtime as well. Everyone else needs to know what about what is happening about that internally as well. So a lot of that is wrapped up into security. Once you've implemented cloud, check the security, check it twice, check it thrice, make sure that is as good as it can be. And

30:12Amish make sure there's ongoing monitoring as well, because security is not a one and done thing. It is something that you have to stay on top of. You have to keep making sure that you're blocking any loopholes that may have popped up.

30:25Haree Yeah. And that changes, right? Every week, something new is coming out. Someone patches something, some new tech comes out, someone has to work on it. So it's an ongoing. Routine of making sure the security is there. Again, one of the reasons we recommend either have in house it resources doing this or employ an external it company to do it. Don't think as a business owner or manager, you have a, the knowledge and be the time to put behind doing something like this. And I think that's very important. And I think the final thing I would recommend everybody moving to the cloud does is monitor cost. Okay.

31:03Amish Yes.

31:04Haree That's quite easily done on a small scale team of simply making sure you have the right onboarding procedures, right? Offboarding procedures, licenses need to be added, licenses need to be removed. And we're not talking about licenses just for Microsoft 365. It could be antivirus licenses, MDR licenses. Everything can be removed as soon as someone leaves and added as another person starts. That's how you're saving money. That's how you're going to be reducing those monthly bills as well.

31:36Amish Yeah. With monitoring costs it comes back to having the expert in there with you, especially when you're looking at a slightly bigger business where you've got servers hosted on AWS or Azure, and you are trying to scale them up and down to cope with your demand. So if you know that, let's say the, some holidays are a very quiet period for you, but then around Christmas, let's say retail, your sales spike up and you have to be able to, your web servers have to be able to cope with that demand. You can scale them up. You don't have to have a massive server running throughout summer, costing you a fortune just so that your wintertime, um, websites are fine.

32:21Amish You. Make sure that you are ups upscaling when you need it, and then, more importantly, downscaling when you don't need it to reduce those costs.

32:31Haree Absolutely. I think that's spot on there. And that's one of the perks of moving to cloud. So if I was to summarize the five biggest perks of moving to cloud, we've got increased flexibility, which you've just mentioned, scaling up, scaling down as and when you need, and. If you suddenly double your staff overnight, you've got the ability to do that straight away in the cloud. Just as much as if you want to reduce the number of people working for you, you can do that straight away. We mentioned cost saving, and that isn't just a case of buying the equipment and that's the cost saving. No, the cost saving comes out of the total running, the total management, the total flexibility. Overall, there is a cost saving to be had. Improved security. If implemented in the right way, very important there, and it's got to be implemented by IT professionals, whether that's in house IT professionals, or

33:23Haree whether you're employing the services of a company, very important to have the right improved security. We've got the automatic updates. Which come with cloud and that is your server side updates, which you no longer have to manage because a third party is dealing with it. The hardware which is failing and being resolved for you in the background and you not having to deal with it and the scalability you're able to scale your business very quickly as we mentioned around flexibility But the scalability also allows you multi regional Scalability, so you could have a server running in London and a replication of that server running in New York, for example, and because they are replicating each other, the people in New York can access it just as quick as the guys in London can, you know, you can have failover between data centers within the same country.

34:15Haree So we could have a site in London, a site in Manchester, and all of this is scaled at the touch of a button. It's not as if you have to have expert programming level abilities. No, it's all done within the platforms of AWS or Microsoft Azure or Google. And it makes life a lot easier for the people managing it. A lot more availability, a lot more flexibility. For the companies using it. Amish, thank you very much for being here. Thank you for all of your insights into the cloud and all the experience you've brought to the table, the expertise you've brought to the table. And most importantly, thanks for everything you do for us and our customers in terms of keeping them secure and safe on the cloud within our own company. So thank you.

34:57Amish Glad to do it. Thank you.

34:59Haree Speak to you soon and see you on the next episode.

35:02And that wraps up this episode of the cyber CEO. Today, we explored the many benefits of moving your business to the cloud from cost savings to improve flexibility and security. Remember, if you're considering migrating to the cloud, it's all about choosing the right provider and planning for your business needs. If you've got any questions or need any advice on anything you've covered today, or in any of our other episodes, Feel free to reach out at the cyber CEO. com for no obligation help until next time. Keep innovating and we'll catch you soon.