Is Apple Mac Really Worth It for Your Business with Mus Melemendi

0:00Haree Are you sure your business is using the best system? Today we're looking at Windows versus Mac os to see which one fits your business best. Stick around you might learn something surprising. Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Cyber CEO podcast. I'm Harry Patel, and today we're talking about a debate that has been around forever, windows versus Mac os. It's the question that splits businesses and teams. Is Mac os the polished choice that creatives love, or is windows the reliable and flexible system that's hard to beat? We'll cover the pros and cons of each, including which types of businesses might benefit the most.

0:48Haree Joining me today is Mus Melemendi senior engineer and team lead at iceConnect Mus. Let's start with the basics. Why do you think so many businesses are hesitant to move from one system to another?

0:59Mus Hi, Harry. Thanks for having

1:01Haree You're welcome.

1:01Mus I think it boils down to three things. the short answer is that most businesses hate change. You know, there's something you may have been using for a really long time and you're hesitant to switch.

1:11Haree Yeah.

1:11Mus What are you familiar with? Is this something that you've trained your whole team on? will your software work on your new system? the training side of that will take a lot of time and, you know, there's costs involved in that. how long will it take to train your whole team on a new system? So I think

1:25Haree Yeah.

1:25Mus of intimidation with what you already know.

1:29Haree And I think as we've gone over time, 99% of businesses we've worked with have always been Windows based. And like you said, it's the software which they're used to running on the Windows platform and changing that around teaching people all the new stuff, it's going to be almost impossible. the three things you're saying are familiarity with. What they're currently using. The second thing is no one really likes change.

1:55Mus Correct.

1:56Haree and the third thing I think, which is one of the biggest drivers, is compatibility. If your software your business works on, doesn't work with the other operating system, then you can't really choose to move anyway. Right.

2:08Mus Yep. Now I think, that the, compatibility side of it is actually been getting better over time. For example, now we have Microsoft, which is completely available from a web based experience, it doesn't matter which platform you are on, you can go to office.com and you can use your word, your emails, your Excel, everything as you do on software. So the operating system matters less, but it, it does still, mean that you're outside of your comfort zone. It might not be as familiar, or you might be losing features if you're using the web-based version as opposed to, the native software.

2:40Haree I have to slightly disagree on some points there. I appreciate compatibility is definitely getting better. Everything's moving cloud. Most apps now that are being developed are purely developed for cloud. No one's really making desktop apps, and that is for compatibility. It allows you to choose whatever you want. But I don't necessarily think that the cloud version of the software is better, especially when it comes to Microsoft. I'll give you two examples. Microsoft Outlook on the cloud. I absolutely detest it. Microsoft Word and Excel on cloud, I absolutely detest it. It's not as fluid, it's not as easy to use. I find it a little sluggish. That's not to say that's the same for all apps, but definitely for those, Microsoft apps, that is the scenario. so I think like you've mentioned, it is a key driver behind what software you want to use, what you're predominantly going to be using and

3:30Haree how that works. Right. So then if it boils down to software, is it fair to say, Certain industries are better for certain oss, Microsoft or or Mac Os, should we say.

3:43Mus So I think, what we're seeing is that a lot of the creative industry, seems to prefer and side with the macros side of things as opposed to windows. everything just seems to work a little bit better. the ecosystem they've created kind of helps creators with that. whereas, windows doesn't seem to have as much of A market share on that side of things.

4:03Haree I think some of the software we're looking at is, definitely the Adobe Creative Suite, right?

4:08Mus Yeah.

4:09Haree That looks a lot nicer on the Mac os than on Windows.

4:12Mus Yeah.

4:14Haree Would you think there's anything which you'd say is better running on windows? I mean, there is the obvious isn't there?

4:19Mus Um. Run something better running on Windows, would, it'd probably be specialized software, even with some of our clients, we have people who work on stuff that can only run on Windows, You know, there's no way of making them run on, macros where you could use stuff like parallels, but that complicates things even further. you're virtualizing the software as opposed to. running it natively and that can go wrong and have its own set of problems,

4:43Haree So to get this right, we've got clients in the finance world, legal world, Medical world. There's definitely software they all have, which does not run on Mac, that has to run on Windows. then that question you've just raised, could you still run it on a Mac in what's called a virtual environment using third party software like parallels? I know you as well as a couple of other guys in the office do this a lot, where you have your Macs and, and you run the software on parallel so that you could have a Windows environment. My take on that is why not just use Windows, because you're gonna end up having to fire up some sort of Windows operating system to run that software on your Mac. why not just use Windows? The difference here now is.

5:29Haree We've got a generation of people who have grown up using Mac as well, whereas the previous generation hadn't grown up using Mac Max in, in that time was, let's be frank, stupendously expensive in comparison to Windows or a Windows laptop or computer. When you're saying in workplaces, you've had all of these Windows devices, most people have just stuck to comfort. They've bought a Windows machine for home. It's easier to use, and it's certainly cheaper. I find a newer generation, a lot more accustomed to. Mac os a lot more accustomed to Apple devices, and you'll see that more prevalent, especially in universities what do you think has been a big driver for change? I feel the cost has come down a lot.

6:12Mus Correct. the cost used to be a lot higher than it is now. one of the most recent examples we can look at is the Mac Mini. that's come in at a very, very. Good price. I think a price of around, 500 to 600 pounds. And that is giving you access to pretty much everything that you would need to get going. even if you are, focusing on something in the creative space, that has, triple screen support out of the box and everything that you would need to take it from there. the Other thing. to touch on is, as I mentioned, a lot of the apps going, to the cloud means that they're also available, on a Mac. So, I think that in combination with the ecosystem, for example, if you've got an Apple iPhone, apple focuses a lot on trying to make sure that you have a seamless experience, within their ecosystem.

6:59Mus they want you to use their browsers, their phones, AirPods or whatever it is. But, when you do use them, you get rewarded for it. everything just works so well within each other.

7:08Haree Yeah.

7:09Mus I could be using my headphones, come into the office, listening to something on my phone. The moment I open my laptop for a meeting, my AirPods automatically switched to my laptop. I don't have to do anything. It just kind of works.

7:21Haree That is the apple slogan, isn't it? It just works. Right. so just touching on costs a little bit there. the barrier to entry to. Get an Apple device is still higher than a Windows device, would I be right?

7:33Mus yes.

7:35Haree And we are talking mainly for laptops because that's the most mobile thing people wanna carry around, especially from a personal perspective.

7:41Mus Yeah.

7:42Haree So if it's still more expensive, you think people are buying into it primarily because of seamless experience. The better experience running an Apple than it is a windows.

7:55Mus I think so, and I also think that if you are comparing, let's say a thousand pound Apple laptop to a Windows laptop when you compare them, I

8:04Haree Mm-hmm.

8:04Mus yes, there are cheaper, Windows based laptops available, but when you compare them, for example, the hardware,

8:10Haree Yeah.

8:11Mus in my opinion seems to be better quality. you know, the software just works a lot better. There's a lot less glitchiness, but I think a part of this is because of their closed ecosystem. They're designing everything, their operating system for that piece of hardware. So there's a lot less that could go wrong, whereas Windows, has to account for a lot more. Variability. for example, there's so many different types of hardware. You can custom build your own pc. There's different laptops from different manufacturers that you have to think about. whereas Apple making their own laptops, they can personalize it. they can optimize it for their hardware.

8:45Haree it almost sounds like we're selling Apple, Mac Os to everybody here.

8:50Mus I

8:50Haree Look, I know Apple had a time where they went through where you could actually. They had what's called Intel processes, which meant you could put Windows operating systems directly instead of running Apple And as of late, they've completely scrapped that. They've done a full U-turn and now they're controlling the entire hardware of their own equipment, which means you can only run Apple software on their equipment or Apple operating systems on their equipment. And would you go back to, I know you use an Apple Mac, would you go back to still choosing an Apple? Right now, knowing that they've now reversed on those decisions and you have to stick to the whole Apple ecosystem.

9:30Mus if I'm honest, at first I was worried about this, but that ultimately ended up being, the decision factor for me. That is when I switched to Apple, Their own silicon ended up being a lot more efficient. You know, I get a full day of battery out of it. It almost felt like they were being held back. Yes. it's even more closed now. but for me, I've never used a laptop that lasts all day I've had it for four years now. It feels like it's, As fast as it was the on day one, as snappy as it was on day one, and everything just works. So, initially I, I was worried of what this might mean for, for Apple, the tech industry for Windows, but it, I think ultimately it showed that there were kind of being held back now, like you mentioned, it has its own drawbacks. You know, it, it's compatibility for certain things, and it made it even more difficult, like parallels and virtualization.

10:22Mus But, I think Apple doesn't seem to care too much about that part of it because they can sell something, with better numbers on specification sheet.

10:31Haree Yeah, and I think, like you mentioned, the big driving factor here is now that all apps are moving towards a cloud-based system, the compatibility question is no longer a major issue as it used to be. so there's no switching you away from Mac now and back to Windows. So you use Windows at work, you use the Mac Os In your personal life, and I know you are a lot more tech savvy, how do you think the common person might feel about having to make that switch from Windows to Mac at home and Windows at work. do you think it's easy enough to do? Is Mac quick and easy enough to learn? and vice versa? Same question. If you're using Mac and you wanna make the switch to Windows, is it an easy enough process?

11:13Mus I mean, it, it's a complicated answer because I think you are, looking to switch platforms, whether it's from Mac Os to Windows or vice versa, you need to make sure you're doing it with an open mind. You know, you can't go into Windows expecting to get Mac OS type experience or, or the other way around. You need to be open to the changes. Both of them do things differently. ultimately there'll be things that frustrate you with. Both systems, you know, something Macs might not do, something you can do on Windows as easily. and the other way around, again, but I think it will depend on what you value. do you want that seamless experience? Do you have, apple products already? Do you have an iPhone? Do you have AirPods? Do you have, anything else that works really well with their other devices if you haven't.

11:59Mus Bought into that ecosystem just yet, then it might not, be as important for you. Whereas for Windows, I don't think the ecosystem matters so much yet

12:07Haree It's not for want of trying, right? Because Microsoft did try to launch the Microsoft phone. They've tried to do the Microsoft tablet, which is the surface. none of them seem to have taken off fully, fully functionally, I would say, as well as Apple have, like the tablets and, the phones. so it's hard to argue the point of a better ecosystem out there. I mentioned something, there is a Microsoft Surface tablets that is a product fully built from the ground up by Microsoft. So it's on Microsoft hardware, running Microsoft software. And that's their answer to the Apple MacBook, That's them saying, well, apple designed their own hardware, and their own software, and here's what we're giving you. Dare I say it, they're pushing out the other brands.

12:52Haree they're pushing out the Dells, the hps, the Lenovos, and whatever other brand we're talking about in that space and trying to bring their own brand in. Is that a competing enough product, do you think? The surface tablets, the surface laptops compared to MacBooks.

13:08Mus I think, the surface tablets and MacBooks give Microsoft the control over their own product, but I don't think the ecosystem is there yet. the ecosystem is the selling point. The hardware has improved, but, it's not. Competing per se,

13:26Haree So you can't win with Microsoft on performance alone is what you're saying? Just 'cause it's a faster laptop. Just 'cause it might do a lot more. It's not enough is what you think.

13:37Mus Yeah.

13:38Haree Okay. Give me three perks, three benefits of using a Windows operating system over a Mac os.

13:45Mus I can do everything on one device right now. If I have one Windows

13:51Haree Mm-hmm.

13:51Mus I can work from home and I know all my software for work works for it. I know I can game on it. For example. It's something I do a lot in my spare time. I won't be able to do that on a Mac os. I tend to delve in a lot of random hobbies, you know, 3D, printing, photography, random stuff. I know that every single thing I might possibly consider getting into, chances are the developers have made a Windows based application for it, and that's their priority. That's the one they're maintaining. That's the one that they're focusing on. And everything else is not an afterthought, but it can be depending on the industry. macros, of a lot of software is just as good nowadays, but again, it completely depends on the industry. There's a few things I've delved into where the software just doesn't exist or isn't up to par or has features missing compared to Windows.

14:38Mus So, if you want a do it all, then Windows is the way to go. I think.

14:42Haree Brilliant, and I'll ask you the same question on Mac Os, but know that we haven't got about 20 hours to discuss it, so maybe give your top three points on what you think is the Mac os winner.

14:53Mus Mac os winner for me, and I've said this multiple times already. I love the ecosystem. You know, at first I went into it, my first Apple product was the iPhone.

15:02Haree Yeah.

15:02Mus and I went into it and I got an apple. M1 Mac and That was my second Apple product, to my iPhone. I didn't realize how well everything works with each other, the ecosystem, you know, if I get a call on my phone, I can continue on my laptop and, respond to text messages everything just works. I didn't have to really set anything up. I just sign in with my Apple account and it's all good to go. the second thing is. I bought the laptop thinking this is the lowest cost device that Apple, lowest cost laptop they're selling I didn't have my hopes high for it. You know, the specs were, compared to what I could get for the same price with a Windows based laptop. A lot worse, but

15:42Haree Yeah.

15:42Mus didn't expect that. performance would actually be better. the performance really, really surprised me. And again, that comes back down to their closed ecosystem. It comes back down to the fact that they're selling their own hardware and they don't have to design their OS to run on any other type of hardware. It's purely optimized for that piece of hardware that they're selling.

16:03Haree Yeah.

16:03Mus and thirdly, it's a fluid experience. I try docking my laptop, and, everything just works. if you're buying a laptop from them, it works better as a laptop. I like being able to use the touch pad. There's a bunch of built-in gestures that feel really natural, but, I think again, if you want to use this. On a desktop, you might be better off buying one of their, apple keyboards or Apple mouse or something like the magic mouse. you are buying into an ecosystem and you will need to use it the way they want you to.

16:32Haree Okay, so is it fair to say that businesses tend to stick to windows because it's easier? And it's almost the done thing, which has been happening for so many years. let's say they didn't have to use any proprietary software, which only sticks to windows. They're just going into Windows. 'cause they, that's what's done. 'cause that's what's, what's really been happening for years.

16:54Mus I think one of the main reasons is that, security is a big factor here. for example, with a Mackey, the device management is nowhere near on the level that you can get with Microsoft

17:03Haree Mm-hmm.

17:04Mus You know, for example, we have things like Intune. on the Windows side of things. And it's just, especially from an IT perspective, much easier for us to be able to manage users and manage devices if they're on Windows than if they were based on,

17:19Haree Oh, Mac I think that's true when you talk about the Microsoft ecosystem specifically Microsoft 3, 6, 5, it marries in very well with Windows. We predominantly support Microsoft 3 6 5 in our organization. And for our customers, we think it's the better product argument for another day. But there are other alternatives out there. There is Google Workspaces as an alternative, for example. And could you say that if you're not using the Microsoft ecosystem, Microsoft 3 6 5 and Intune, Google Workspaces works better with Mac Os? Or is that still impartial between devices there?

17:54Mus I'd say that's still impartial between the devices. but, my answer earlier is based on the fact that when I talk about macro, I'm talking about it From the perspective of a user, but from, from the perspective of an engineer. I would not like to be managing Apple devices, if I'm honest. it would just be a headache,

18:12Haree So

18:13Mus to deal with.

18:14Haree are you saying it's a headache because it doesn't have the granular controls which Windows has, which means we can't apply the restrictions we want? Or is it a headache because it's a lot more difficult to get to work in the way we want?

18:26Mus I think it's really difficult. Because it's such a closed ecosystem, it is

18:30Haree Hmm.

18:31Mus to get the kind of control we want. apple end up kicking us out. when we're trying to help the user out, with the kind of industry we're in, we need to be able to make sure we have control. our clients depend on us to have this type of control, to fix things when things go wrong. with Apple devices. if something goes wrong, you're almost better off speaking to them and hoping they can help you. But it's going to be a very niche problem. And, they won't be able to fix your problem. It's

18:56Haree Yeah,

18:56Mus generic knowledge base or something like that. whereas with Windows, we have the control over the devices. We have a lower level access, and we can see everything going on with a piece of hardware. and to also troubleshoot it.

19:09Haree let me bring AI into this conversation. Windows has obviously close tie-ins with Microsoft 3, 6, 5, and now. Microsoft Copilot, which is a massive AI engine that they're putting on pretty much a lot of their devices, especially their Microsoft, branded devices. Apple has got Siri, Apple's come out with Apple Intelligence. I haven't heard much about Apple integrating that into their Mac Os. Whereas Windows is very heavily talking about integrating co-pilot into their Windows operating system. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think it's gonna come down the road? Is it gonna be too late and Microsoft will already have got the ground? It's, it's taking the lead and, and leaving Mac os in the shadow.

19:56Mus I think it will come a bit too late compared to Microsoft, but we've seen this on multiple occasions. Apple isn't always first, with a new feature, but they try to do it in a very Apple way. They might try to perfect it. the AI implementation on their phones, for example, right now is kind of. Subpar, it feels rushed, which is not on brand with Apple, normally they try to, make sure they have something perfected. It works really well, and I believe this is the first time they're shipping something with. know, they advertised the iPhone 16 saying it has AI features and they sold it to you, but it wasn't even available. It was coming down three months down the line.

20:34Haree Yeah.

20:34Mus it as a beta product. You know, it's not out yet. and even now on my phone, it's branded as a beta feature. So,

20:42Haree Right.

20:43Mus That's not really on brand with them. I do think they are a bit slow with this and the implementation they have had so far hasn't been very good with ai, whereas I think Microsoft is, implementing AI a lot better right now?

20:56Haree So definitely Mac os on the back foot of AI tools.

21:00Mus Yeah.

21:00Haree I have an interesting question for you here and a little controversial, but do you think Mac Os is more of a status symbol than actually something which is a lot more practical than Windows? 'cause I know when I was growing up, anyone who had a Mac os it was a very expensive piece of kit back in the day. And if you had a Mac, it was like, wow, you've got a Mac. you know, you're swinging around a 1500, 2000 pound laptop where

21:23Mus Yep.

21:24Haree we were swinging around 500 pound. Laptops from curries, you know, with the most basic stuff on there. So, is it still a status symbol? Is it still something for the wealthier and deeper pockets?

21:35Mus I think it can be. what surprises me is the fact that, Apple can kind of sell you the same product with a much higher price tag and people will still buy it. we saw instances of them selling monitor screens for 2000 pounds and technologically on paper, you know, it wasn't any different than something you can shelf or a quarter of the price, but it had their logo their brand on it.

21:57Haree Yeah,

21:58Mus the price was much higher than it would be normally.

22:01Haree there's still an element of a higher level of status running Max, and that extends into businesses. I know we've got, a lot of. City-based hedge funds we work with, and we're starting to see more and more that they're putting in Macs into their environment.

22:19Mus Yeah.

22:19Haree previously it was Windows and I dunno if that's because they genuinely feel that those Macs are better performing. I have noticed where this comes in, the incumbent. Team. The incumbent staff have always been on Windows. They've never wanted to change, never cared to change.

22:37Mus Yep.

22:37Haree as they're taking on new members of the team and growing the team, and dare I say it, a younger team, they're all coming in saying, we'd like to work with Max.

22:47Mus Yep.

22:48Haree I think there is an Age or a generation of people who prefer Macs over windows and whether that's a status thing or a familiarity thing, or actually it is a productivity thing. I think time will tell, but we are seeing a shift in the last 12 to 18 months

23:02Mus Yep.

23:02Haree more max.

23:03Mus To add to your comments about the status thing, I did just remember, I went somewhere and they had IMAX across all of the reception computers. So I was like, okay, so this is what I'm dealing with today. Went around and all of the IMAX were actually running Windows, but they wanted to display the IMAX in reception,

23:22Haree Yeah.

23:23Mus they were all running windows and I don't think they would be able to run Mac OS on there, they wouldn't want to run Mac Os on there, but they wanted to display the IMAX in their reception, even though it was running Windows. So I think the status thing definitely has its play.

23:36Haree Absolutely. So let's, wrap this up with some actionable items people can walk away with. what do people need to look for in their organization if they're having this, impasse? do I go down the windows route? Do I go down the macros route? What kind of tips, advice do you have for people on this?

23:51Mus I think the first thing people need to do is kind of look at, you know, what are they working with? Are they working purely with cloud-based software? Are they working on stuff like Microsoft Word, Excel, and emails? If that's all you need, You have more options available to you. you can look at Mac os, as an alternative or Windows if you're already on Macs, But, I do think if you're working on cloud-based, systems, this is something to consider if you want a more seamless experience, if you want all your devices to work and you don't mind buying into an ecosystem, this does mean obviously Apple dictating kind of how you should be using your devices and always telling you to buy their devices so that everything works better. but. If you do buy into it, you will get the benefits of it. So, as I mentioned, if especially if you're on the go, it would be beneficial for you to have an iPhone and

24:38Mus AirPods or one of the Apple, devices that, work really well with each other.

24:42Haree Yeah.

24:43Mus do think that ecosystem has its benefits if you're on the go.

24:45Haree So touching, on the cloud thing, if you have proprietary software which only works on Windows, then the conversation of Mac os is a non-starter,

24:54Mus I wouldn't consider virtualizing it or using parallels or any workaround.

24:58Haree yeah,

24:58Mus work as well.

25:00Haree that's the biggest key divider here, isn't it? it's cloud software versus proprietary Windows based software. any other things you can think of?

25:08Mus I think on the security side of things, if you really want to be able to, tell your IT company, I want hands off, I want you to take control of everything. I do think Windows gives us the IT engineers, the techies, a lot more control over your devices. if you want to say, I don't want to think about this, take over my, full security I do think that Windows is the way to go there. if you're switching, keep an open mind.

25:32Haree You've pretty much sold Mac Os to everybody out here, by the way. You know that.

25:35Mus Yep. And if my PC in the office dies, I want a Mac. Mac mini replacement.

25:41Haree I did think about putting a Mac Mini in my house, actually. I thought it's a good way to start learning the Mac and my, home machine stroke laptop is coming to an end. It's about 5, 5, 6 years old. And you know, it's at that point where all the, fans inside are wearing away. Like it's about to take off like a jet engine or something. Jury's out though I'm not totally convinced just yet. I dunno. What's holding me back from switching from Windows to Mac? I think it's the not wanting change. It's not wanting to have to learn something new. I'm very quick at using windows. I can get things done instantly. I know where everything is. That change is a big fear of mine on switching from Windows to Mac personally, that's what's holding me back.

26:21Mus I feel like you're done with your tinkering phase, Harry. if you switch to Macs now you are, you're gonna run out of patients and you, you don't want to try figure it all out. Everything just works for you already.

26:31Haree Yeah,

26:31Mus The only way you would switch to Macs is if windows pushed you away, and I don't think that's gonna happen

26:36Haree no, I always ended up finding an excuse of why I needed windows. I remember, about two, three years ago, I spoke to you guys and it was, oh, my accounting software is, uh. Windows only. So until that moves to cloud, I can't move it. And that moved to cloud. And now I've got nothing really, which is proprietary windows apart from me, myself, and I. I've been using Windows since Ms. Dos and then it became Windows 3.1. I've been using it since its very first iteration. You're too young to know what Windows 3.1 is. Don't worry, I'll show you some screenshots if I can find it. But look, I absolutely do love windows. I think it's a great product. It's getting better and better. windows 11 is probably one of the best operating systems they've come out with, and a lot of it has, started to work like Mac I had a friend of mine and the one thing he said to me was, should I go for Windows and Mac?

27:27Haree And I said, look, windows is just as good. He came out to me and said, look, the one thing I love when I see people use Mac is they flip the lid open and it's almost instantly starting to work

27:37Mus Yep.

27:38Haree with Windows. You flip the lid open, you've gotta wait 10 minutes for it to load into the OS and get your logins and everything, and then it's still firing up in the background. I think the only reason that worked on the Mac. Was the performance of the hardware. when you buy a 2000 pound Mac versus a 500 pound Windows laptop, you can't expect the same level of performance. If you buy a 2000 pound Windows device, I think you can get to that same level of seamless. Activation, seamless, instant on kind of stuff. I do know when my laptop was first brand new, I did have that level of, open it and it just works. But my laptop's now, like I said, five something years old and it takes a little while longer to, start up, but jury's out. I'm not making any decisions on Windows or Mac just yet for my next device.

28:26Speaker 2 That's it for today's episode. A big thank you to MUS for joining me to break down Windows versus Mac Os for business. I hope we've got you some useful insights into the strengths and weaknesses of both platforms and which one might work best for your needs. If you'd like to talk about your tech setup or want some free advice, visit the cyber ceo.com. We're always happy to help.